English 1.0 (EarthLing) skypecast

[heron stone]

Communication experts have estimated that a person receives ten thousand
sensory impressions (exteroceptive and proprioceptive) per second.
Obviously, then, a drastic selection process is necessary to prevent the
higher brain centers from being swamped by irrelevant information. But
the decision about what is essential and what is irrelevant apparently
varies from individual to individual and seems to be determined by
criteria which are largely outside individual awareness. In all
probability, reality is what we make it or, in Hamlet's words, "...there
is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so." We can only
speculate that at the root of these punctuation conflicts there lies the
firmly established and usually unquestioned conviction that there is
only one reality, the world as I see it, and that any view that differs
from mine must be due to the other's irrationality or ill will.
- Paul Watzlawick, et. al.

















English 1.0 (EarthLing): a debugged subset of wild english...
designed for clear thinking and accurate communication

.if you think in english, you're confused


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where: https://skypecasts.skype.com/skypecasts/ongoing
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heron


.don't believe everything you hear your language machine say

unDO email address
___
Nature, heron stone
to be commanded, http://gendo.net
must be obeyed. mailto:***@gendo.net

[Stephen Calder]

Post by heron stone
Communication experts have estimated that a person receives ten thousand
sensory impressions (exteroceptive and proprioceptive) per second.
Obviously, then, a drastic selection process is necessary to prevent the
higher brain centers from being swamped by irrelevant information. But
the decision about what is essential and what is irrelevant apparently
varies from individual to individual and seems to be determined by
criteria which are largely outside individual awareness. In all
probability, reality is what we make it or, in Hamlet's words, "...there
is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so."

Up to here, very good. Those who are studying consciousness and the
working of the brain focus on what is working, in contrast to those who
studied mental illness to find a cure for it. They (by whom I mean
Daniel Dennett, Roger Penrose, Stephen Pinker and others) report pretty
much the same thing: the sense we have of the world is constructed in
the mind, which does a great deal of subconscious processing, including
erasing and even editing, of the raw sensory input so that it conforms
with expectations based on experience.

Fascinating. Perhaps now we can all start to doubt the evidence of our
senses, which would seem to be a good thing, since our senses are
telling (most of) us that something is wrong with the world.

Perhaps we can start to suspect that perhaps something is wrong with our
world view.



We can only

Post by heron stone
speculate that at the root of these punctuation conflicts there lies the
firmly established and usually unquestioned conviction that there is
only one reality, the world as I see it, and that any view that differs
from mine must be due to the other's irrationality or ill will.
- Paul Watzlawick, et. al.

I can agree with this too but I would make a very important deletion and
generalise the sentence to apply to any conflict. Delete "punctuation".

This being the case, the necessity becomes seeing my brother as myself:
someone who merely wants everything to be for the best, but cannot see
how to obtain that except through conflict, or perhaps sacrifice, both
of which are completely unnecessary.

Internalised, the principal of love-your-brother-love-yourself comes
down to a personal decision whether or not to engage in conflict, and
generally conflict is engaged in until its futility is recognised and a
decision is made in favour of peace. Peace is then found internally,
where it is, if the seeking is determined and persistent.

I discovered I was the source of, and therefore had the solution to, all
my problems. The same is true for everyone, and everyone has to discover
that, if they do, for themselves. You already have the key: decide for
peace, now and forever, above all else.

Peace be with you.

[Don Phillipson]

Post by heron stone
Communication experts have estimated that a person receives ten thousand
sensory impressions (exteroceptive and proprioceptive) per second.
Obviously, then, a drastic selection process is necessary to prevent the
higher brain centers from being swamped by irrelevant information.

This proposition is not logically necessary and seems
not intuitively true. If it were true, it would imply the
brain's data path (capacity to receive X thousand data
bits per second) is known to be less than the receptive
capacity of the senses (capacity to send to the brain Y thousand
data bits per second.) But no evidence has been offered
of either value, X or Y, let alone which is greater.

[Stephen Calder]

Post by Don Phillipson

Post by heron stone
Communication experts have estimated that a person receives ten thousand
sensory impressions (exteroceptive and proprioceptive) per second.
Obviously, then, a drastic selection process is necessary to prevent the
higher brain centers from being swamped by irrelevant information.

This proposition is not logically necessary and seems
not intuitively true. If it were true, it would imply the
brain's data path (capacity to receive X thousand data
bits per second) is known to be less than the receptive
capacity of the senses (capacity to send to the brain Y thousand
data bits per second.) But no evidence has been offered
of either value, X or Y, let alone which is greater.

Have you noticed that if you listen intently you can follow a single
person's voice in a crowded room?

Have you ever experienced being unaware of a background noise, such as a
refrigerator or washing machine, or lawnmower outside, until it stops?

Ever held a phone conversation amid a noisy background, such as
television, street noises, restaurant crowd, and been quite capable of
carrying on?

Is filtering going on? Is it conscious? Is it possible that filtering
could be going on all the time?

Our awareness shifts from one thing to the other in our environment and
at the same time our consciousness is giving us a running monologue
about the successes and problems we are facing, our relationships and
how to handle them, our financial and household affairs, and so on.

It seems highly likely to me that the total input of the senses is
filtered, edited and reconstructed in the brain, as the evidence
suggests, and that if we were totally aware of all the sense data at
once it could be overwhelming at times, impinging on the brain's
capacity to function in response to events.

[John Flynn]

Stephen Calder wrote:

[snip]

Post by Stephen Calder
Is filtering going on? Is it conscious? Is it possible that filtering
could be going on all the time?
Our awareness shifts from one thing to the other in our environment
and at the same time our consciousness is giving us a running monologue
about the successes and problems we are facing, our relationships
and how to handle them, our financial and household affairs, and so
on.
It seems highly likely to me that the total input of the senses is
filtered, edited and reconstructed in the brain, as the evidence
suggests, and that if we were totally aware of all the sense data
at once it could be overwhelming at times, impinging on the brain's
capacity to function in response to events.

I'm a diabetic and have been for 34 years now. The times that I have
had a hypoglycaemic episode in which I've lost consciousness and
needed to be taken to a hospital for recovery are very few (I could
count them on one hand) but each time there has been, during the
recovery process, a time when my consciousness is kinda there, kinda
not there. I'm aware but not completely aware, but the thing that
I notice most about that 'waking' moment is that it is preceded by
a couple of minutes (it feels like minutes but might only be seconds)
of absolutely none of that filtering you mention. I am bombarded
with input from every sense; smells, sounds, feelings, tastes, all
of them flashing into my awareness completely beyond my control,
one after the other. And then, it's like a switch is flicked and
I regain 'control' of what I can shift my awareness to.

It's a very frightening thing to experience at the time, but very
fascinating to wonder about and contemplate when I'm back to normal.

[Stephen Calder]

Post by John Flynn
[snip]

Post by Stephen Calder
Is filtering going on? Is it conscious? Is it possible that filtering
could be going on all the time?
Our awareness shifts from one thing to the other in our environment
and at the same time our consciousness is giving us a running monologue
about the successes and problems we are facing, our relationships
and how to handle them, our financial and household affairs, and so
on.
It seems highly likely to me that the total input of the senses is
filtered, edited and reconstructed in the brain, as the evidence
suggests, and that if we were totally aware of all the sense data
at once it could be overwhelming at times, impinging on the brain's
capacity to function in response to events.

I'm a diabetic and have been for 34 years now. The times that I have
had a hypoglycaemic episode in which I've lost consciousness and
needed to be taken to a hospital for recovery are very few (I could
count them on one hand) but each time there has been, during the
recovery process, a time when my consciousness is kinda there, kinda
not there. I'm aware but not completely aware, but the thing that
I notice most about that 'waking' moment is that it is preceded by
a couple of minutes (it feels like minutes but might only be seconds)
of absolutely none of that filtering you mention. I am bombarded
with input from every sense; smells, sounds, feelings, tastes, all
of them flashing into my awareness completely beyond my control,
one after the other. And then, it's like a switch is flicked and
I regain 'control' of what I can shift my awareness to.
It's a very frightening thing to experience at the time, but very
fascinating to wonder about and contemplate when I'm back to normal.

Thanks for the input. Fascinating indeed.

[heron stone]

Post by John Flynn
I'm a diabetic and have been for 34 years now. The times that I have
had a hypoglycaemic episode in which I've lost consciousness and
needed to be taken to a hospital for recovery are very few (I could
count them on one hand) but each time there has been, during the
recovery process, a time when my consciousness is kinda there, kinda
not there. I'm aware but not completely aware, but the thing that
I notice most about that 'waking' moment is that it is preceded by
a couple of minutes (it feels like minutes but might only be seconds)
of absolutely none of that filtering you mention. I am bombarded
with input from every sense; smells, sounds, feelings, tastes, all
of them flashing into my awareness completely beyond my control,
one after the other. And then, it's like a switch is flicked and
I regain 'control' of what I can shift my awareness to.
It's a very frightening thing to experience at the time, but very
fascinating to wonder about and contemplate when I'm back to normal.

.thanks for sharing that
.that's a great little tidbit of info
.if only i knew what to do with it

?do you skype
?would you be open to discussing this phenomenon
with me
.i'd be really interested in hearing more details
about this

.i think it's fascinating and potentially important...
if we could figure how it fits with other data
points
.of course, from my perspective, it probably has
something to do with the language machine
kicking in

heron

unDO email address
___
Nature, heron stone
to be commanded, http://gendo.net
must be obeyed. mailto:***@gendo.net

[Don Phillipson]

Post by Don Phillipson
If it were true, it would imply the

Post by Don Phillipson
brain's data path (capacity to receive X thousand data
bits per second) is known to be less than the receptive
capacity of the senses (capacity to send to the brain Y thousand
data bits per second.) But no evidence has been offered
of either value, X or Y, let alone which is greater.

Have you noticed that if you listen intently you can follow a single
person's voice in a crowded room?
Have you ever experienced being unaware of a background noise, such as a
refrigerator or washing machine, or lawnmower outside, until it stops?
. . .
It seems highly likely to me that the total input of the senses is
filtered, edited and reconstructed in the brain, as the evidence
suggests, and that if we were totally aware of all the sense data at
once it could be overwhelming at times, impinging on the brain's
capacity to function in response to events.

Of course I agree -- but the OP concerned the values of X and Y.
We agree something probably limits the flow of sense
data to the mind: but we cannot say whether this filter is in the
sensing apparatus (cf. we see only the "visible spectrum:" we
cannot see anything at infrared or ultraviolet frequencies) or
inside the brain processor. This is why neurological research
continues (and perhaps philosophy too.)

[heron stone]

Post by Don Phillipson
Of course I agree -- but the OP concerned the values of X and Y.
We agree something probably limits the flow of sense
data to the mind: but we cannot say whether this filter is in the
sensing apparatus (cf. we see only the "visible spectrum:" we
cannot see anything at infrared or ultraviolet frequencies) or
inside the brain processor.

.it's not impossible that filtering can occur in both places...
and perhaps others

.one of the so-called "5 stupidities" of english is 2-valued logic
.our language machines often impose either-orism on our analysis
of situations
.we then act as though this analysis is a property of the situation
rather than a property of our analysis

heron

unDO email address
___
Nature, heron stone
to be commanded, http://gendo.net
must be obeyed. mailto:***@gendo.net

[Stephen Calder]

Post by heron stone

Post by Don Phillipson
Of course I agree -- but the OP concerned the values of X and Y.
We agree something probably limits the flow of sense
data to the mind: but we cannot say whether this filter is in the
sensing apparatus (cf. we see only the "visible spectrum:" we
cannot see anything at infrared or ultraviolet frequencies) or
inside the brain processor.

.it's not impossible that filtering can occur in both places...
and perhaps others
.one of the so-called "5 stupidities" of english is 2-valued logic
.our language machines often impose either-orism on our analysis
of situations
.we then act as though this analysis is a property of the situation
rather than a property of our analysis
heron
unDO email address
___
Nature, heron stone
to be commanded, http://gendo.net

Have you studied General Semantics?

[heron stone]

Post by Stephen Calder

Post by heron stone

Post by Don Phillipson
Of course I agree -- but the OP concerned the values of X and Y.
We agree something probably limits the flow of sense
data to the mind: but we cannot say whether this filter is in the
sensing apparatus (cf. we see only the "visible spectrum:" we
cannot see anything at infrared or ultraviolet frequencies) or
inside the brain processor.

.it's not impossible that filtering can occur in both places...
and perhaps others
.one of the so-called "5 stupidities" of english is 2-valued logic
.our language machines often impose either-orism on our analysis
of situations
.we then act as though this analysis is a property of the situation
rather than a property of our analysis
heron

Have you studied General Semantics?

.you bet i have... ak s&s

.check my bibliography... http://gendo.net/gendo/bib.html

heron

unDO email address
___
Nature, heron stone
to be commanded, http://gendo.net
must be obeyed. mailto:***@gendo.net

[Stephen Calder]

Post by heron stone

Post by Stephen Calder
Have you studied General Semantics?

.you bet i have... ak s&s

S&S?

You would also be interested, I believe, in the works of Stanislav Grof,
Michael Talbot and Rupert Sheldrake.

[heron stone]

In article
<44e029e3$0$505$***@uq-127creek-reader-03.brisbane.pipenetworks.com
.au>,

Post by Stephen Calder

Post by heron stone

Post by Stephen Calder
Have you studied General Semantics?

.you bet i have... ak s&s

S&S?
You would also be interested, I believe, in the works of Stanislav Grof,
Michael Talbot and Rupert Sheldrake.

.yes, i know
.i'm vaguely familiar with grof, a little more so with sheldrake
and have heard of talbot but haven't read him

.unforntunately, my list of interesting-things-to-explore grows
faster than i can deal with

heron

unDO email address
___
Nature, heron stone
to be commanded, http://gendo.net
must be obeyed. mailto:***@gendo.net

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Post by heron stone
Communication experts have estimated that a person receives ten thousand
sensory impressions (exteroceptive and proprioceptive) per second.
Obviously, then, a drastic selection process is necessary to prevent the
higher brain centers from being swamped by irrelevant information. But
the decision about what is essential and what is irrelevant apparently
varies from individual to individual and seems to be determined by
criteria which are largely outside individual awareness. In all
probability, reality is what we make it or, in Hamlet's words, "...there
is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so." We can only
speculate that at the root of these punctuation conflicts there lies the
firmly established and usually unquestioned conviction that there is
only one reality, the world as I see it, and that any view that differs
from mine must be due to the other's irrationality or ill will.
- Paul Watzlawick, et. al.
English 1.0 (EarthLing): a debugged subset of wild english...
designed for clear thinking and accurate communication
.if you think in english, you're confused
what: open discussion/exploration
who: up to 99 people interested in language and...
intelligence/problem-solving/creativity/sociology/
enlightenment/planetary evolution/bob/etc.
why: because you know...
but you don't know you know...
you know ?
when: mondays, 20:00 to 21:00, california time (GMT-7)
sundays, noon to 13:00, california time (GMT-7)
where: https://skypecasts.skype.com/skypecasts/ongoing
look for the green leaf icon and "English 1.0"
.you can download the free software at the following URL...
http://www.skype.com/
heron
.don't believe everything you hear your language machine say
unDO email address
___
Nature, heron stone
to be commanded, http://gendo.net